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neaNicu

Stagnation?

  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you find leveling in ESO boring? (after answering, feel free to elaborate)

    • Yes, very - especially as I reach rank-5 and beyond!
      3
    • Yes, but no idea about VR, as I am low leveled.
      0
    • It is, sometimes! Not always. Boredom isn't the biggest downside of ESO.
      2
    • Nope, it ain't boring - and I am VR-5+ and it's all honkie dorie!
      4
    • Nope, it ain't boring - but I ain't VR yet.
      4
  2. 2. If you think ESO is boring, what do you think is the main reason?

    • Questing being the only rewarding aspect of the game, during leveling!
      3
    • Content - it is repetitive.
      4
    • Combat - just boring.
      1
    • Visuals are mediocre. Below my standards (don't check if they ain't below your standards)!
      0
    • Bugs, bugs, bugs (considering latest patches/updates as well - check if you feel this even now, after all patches)
      2
    • PvP - doesn't appeal to me, although I am huge PvP fan (don't check if you ain't PvP lover)
      0
    • Nothing boring here... (choose this option to bypass vote mechanism)
      6


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Just to be clear from the start -> I am not judging anyone, just trying to understand if the issue is forum-related or more broadly, guild-related or even game-related. So maybe we can do something to improve...

 

The forum has 120 accounts, from which barely 10 are loging in (visiting) forum daily.

This is very few, especially since the game was just published so people should (still) be interested in it.

In the last 2 weeks (or 10 days), just 1 new forum account was created, so nobody new, as to say so.

I remember this was not the case few weeks ago, when the forum was very active.

 

Which is the explanation for this:

 

1) the forum itself (should we try to bring more interesting topics)? or

 

2) about the guild membership? The guild has 112 members, I don't have that add-on installed so I'm not sure how many of them are actually playing. Again, I am not asking this from "kicking" perspective but just try to understand / explain.

For example, how many members log in at least once in last 7 days?

Could this be an explanation for forum also?

 

3) game-related? Are there quite a lot of people which cancelled their subscription and quitted the game?

 

 

 

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Atleast some of the active people (on forum and in game) are taking a break or have quitted.

Also it sometimes feels very in-crowded here ;) it being the same few people discussing various things.

 

I have some issues with the game, and that's why I'm not playing that much in periods.

I think they add new content too fast and the forced questing through all areas before you can do PvE is a huge issue imo, but I might be very alone in this thinking.

Forums are most used for sharing builds, mechanics and tactis, and then you have some calender/sign-up in MMO's, the rest is sorta for fun.

For some strange reason however I go on the forums everyday more then once :P

 

I think we should aim for mature dedicated players, but that might mean we sit between chairs: Mature = have real life stuff, Dedicated = have high expectations in PvE and progression.

 

I also think it is hard to build a group-feeling in this game, because of the way the chatsystem works, and how guildchat actually interfeers annoyingly with quest stories (I can say this as I talk way tooo much on g-chat sometimes :P)

I have no clue as to how we could build a group/guild-feeling, but if you manage to do that, I think it is easier to get people on to the forums. (I think I'm on the forums so much because I feel LoS is my gang :P)

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slightly off-topic: you see, it is some paradox here.

My son, who played various MMOs in the past, says that in ESO one could reach maximum level (VR 10 currently) way way way TOO SOON (1 month and something) and then...nothing to do anymore? In other MMOs, maximum level is not reacheable so fast (says Vulturul).

 

On the other hand, you (and Thyworm) "complain" that there is TOO MANY content (or too many quests) to be done till end-game or till maximum level  :)

See the paradox?

 

Since it's my first MMO, I am not saying anything, just listen to people :P

If I compare with Skyrim, which can be done completely (all quests) in 200-250 hours, I would estimate same amount of time for ESO. Of course, it's just an estimation, I didn't count hours spent in ESO. In Skyrim I know for sure because Steam offers such statistics.

 

In other MMOs I played (but FPS not RPG), the "group-feeling" was mainly due (I think) to 3 factors which do not exist in ESO:

- playing together

- using Teamspeak (and also forum but mainly TS)

- time passed (that MMO lasted for 3 years so we knew each other in time, added each other as friends on Steam and Facebook, even met in real-life with some of them). Now the game is gone, the guild is gone but we still keep in touch with each other on FB or Teamspeak.

Edited by Serana
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Well I might be very wrong on the time-spent to max lvl and the quests, because it is a very long time since I lvl'ed a char from scratch.

Also I have played 5 MMO's and I only managed to get one char to max in each of them ;)

I come from a crafting based MMO, so I've been used to doing what I want and explore where I want, instead of questing, so the whole questing thing is annoying me a little bit (but OT as it's just me probably).

 

I totally agree on the group-factors!

-you will get teamspeak in PvE, and this helps alot, but you need to get guilds players to be able to actually do the dungeons first

-playing together you also get in PvE (and I hope PvP and RP) and I think Zeni needs to fix the zooning if they didn't already

-time will go :)

So in those aspects RPG's are not that different from FPS

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ESO leveling might be quick, but it's as boring as hell. Questing, questing and questing - nothing else. Technically, you get zero reward from dungeons repeated, zero reward from PvP and the only viable way to reach the top level is through questing. Well, questing in general might be fun, but you guys forget one important aspect here: ESO isn't the only game with good story, i.e. questlines - we have quested to death in various games, such as Assassin's Creed series, Witcher series etc etc - all those numerous successful RPGs. In MMO, going all the way RPG (i.e. questing) and only is unhealthy. ESO killed itself by doing that. Its not regular TES game, noone wants TES gone MMO in literal meaning of the word! They've done it literally. It's no different than SWTOR, even worse.

 

I belong to a working class (and I love my job - bugger is, I love my job more than I love playing ESO now) and I need social aspect of my MMO outweigh its RPG aspect. ESO fails there utterly and miserably. I don't want to grind in quests (and only!) just to reach end-game capability. It sucks and it's a very strong motivation to leave the game. :( I will do my best to hold on for at least 3-4 months, but I won't be able to promise that.

 

And as it comes to the guild in whole: at least 30 people has left the game altogether. About 70+ percent of the remaining are more casual than they'd be in a regular MMO. The rest are either pushing a bit more - like me - , or are die-heart fans of the franchise. Even zone chats became dead, let alone guild one. 

 

P.S.: Serana, this topic would be nice discussion in public forums. Care to move it? Nothing officer related in it anyway.

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Just created two polls to measure the guild's pulse... Things have become unpleasantly slow, quiet and ... stagnating? Let's discover the reasons. 

 

P.S.: If you feel I missed some option in polls, or they are somehow badly designed, let's discuss that as well. Goal here is to discover the underlying reasons leading to our current, sleepy mood, either as a guild, or whole game's player-base.

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For some reason I had to vote in both polls for it to count, so I chose to whine a bit about bugs even though I don't think the game is boring.

 

Well...

 

PVE is kinda boring I guess, but I don't play this game for PVE. I play for PVP, and PVP is bloody brilliant! :)

 

I suppose the "stagnation" can depend on a lot of things, but I think it has to do with the general turnover you see at the start of any MMORPG. People try it out, and some stay, but some also leave, and of course the people that leave or become less active will leave behind a void. One way to combat that could, for instance, be to focus more heavily on new recruitment, but I think another way to pick up activity could be to schedule regular events: For instance, perhaps we decide that "Thursday night is PVP night", and we all get together as a guild then and tear up some Pact and Covenant trash in Cyrodiil. Personally I would love that, but I don't know if it will work with everyone of course!

Edited by Tyronus Venurori
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Same as Tyronus but from a PVE perspective.

Didn't vote because it does not allow me to do only question 1.

I'm not bored. I come from Skyrim and for me it's normal to just quest-explore-quest-explore-quest :)

Clearly is not as good as Skyrim from this point of view, I wouldn't replay for 3 times like I did with Skyrim, but I like ESO.

At least the quest part. Now, do I like pve end-game (dungeons, trials, adventures)? I don't know yet.

Do I like pvp? Played only once and was funny but I'm sure it would be much more funny with a group.

If Perry tries again to form a pvp group, count on me, I'll come with my daughter's character to play with you.

Also, I'm a completionist so I always find some more achievements to be done :)

Now I want the title "Explorer" so I play all Cyrodiil dungeons.

 

Later:

 

But I understand that people feel alone, it's normal. Even myself (mainly single player gamer) came to ESO with the thought to play co-op in a 4-man party and actually play lonely because grouping and questing together is difficult.

Maybe the situation will change with Craglorn and trials, I hope so.

 

I'll admit however that I'm kinda worried. In previous MMO(FPS) I played, this kind of situation & discussions (people quitting, people bored etc) come after 3 years and mainly because of hackers / cheaters, not because of the game content.

At that time, after 3 years of playing daily, in the evenings at least 40 people out of 100 were still online, from which 25-30 also on Teamspeak.

Today for example in ESO I quitted at 12:30 Romanian local hour and only 9 people were online.

The problem is that ESO only has 1,5 months, not 3 years :(


moved from officer area and merged with Gelmir's poll because it's the same issue being discussed in both.

Edited by Serana
text added
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For instance, perhaps we decide that "Thursday night is PVP night", and we all get together as a guild then and tear up some Pact and Covenant trash in Cyrodiil. Personally I would love that, but I don't know if it will work with everyone of course!

 

Somebody must organize such events. If you like such kind of activity, maybe you can try.

 

In general, the only significant problem for me is that we rarely play together. In PVE only dungeons united us sometimes. I really like dungeons. We can make some efforts and try working together more.

 

Serana, you obviously need AD character! I know you can lvl-up it quite easily. :)

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Let's organize some PvP events :)

Tyros idea is great, find one evening a week where we go bash people together as a guild. (Just not wednesday!)

Even if we don't have a PvP officer right now, let's just agree on an evening and schedule and any officer can invite.

We can ask Tyro to lead, he has good tactics :)

 

I voted I'm bored with questing sometimes because I am.

 

I was thinking, since Craglorn is here and lvl V12 is already also, that maybe Zeni is not working from the typical end-game idea as we are used to?

Anyways I have given up on that, and I might never reach whatever V-end lvl there is going to be when I hit 50, because of all the questing.

 

But there is PvP and that is fun in this game (now they have nerfed the vampires).

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First of all I must say that TESO is absolutely not boring for me.

 

I bored in MMO rly quickly, and prefer to do many alt to avoid this. And when I hit toplvl by one char, I manage to do 2-4 alt to midlvl. With TESO I plan to do same, but I still play only one char, and don’t want switch to alt at all!!!

 

My comparison with other MMO:

1) WoW - it was my first MMO, and longest I play. Hard to judge so I skip it for now.

2) SWOTOR – most boring game I played. Storyline is great, best part of game, and for this I come back to it someday. But fight is awful!! It so monotonous so I can’t bear it. It similar to WoW, but somehow they manage to do it all wrong. You can put on skillbar much more skill then in TESO, but you only push same 3 buttons, always in only one sequence, no meter against whom you fight!!!

In TESO it only seems that you have small skillbar, but in real you have 15 button, and all of that is useful. And use of it much further than simple monotonous rotation.

So TESO have great storyline to, and awesome fight system. Result: TESO > SWOTOR.

3) GW2 – good game and best example of bold experiments in MMO innovations. And best example of public relations. Also have good solo storyline, it only lack of good background like in TES or SW. And it have exemplary team play mechanics of events. But it also has disadvantages… In some moment you just realize that you ran as a hamster in a wheel, and don’t have any benefits of doing same thing. And fight system is much more AOE fest and spaming all your keyboard rather than sensible tactic and thinking. As a result, we obtain a good game as lvling experience, fun fight system. And great tool for brain off.   

In TESO you always mast wisely choose when and what to use, always must keep constant vigilance in fight. One mistake can cost your live, and it is rly grate.  

So TESO in it core features for me > then GW2. But… In small detail TESO is still beta, and fight system is lack of responsiveness. I rly hope they fix it as they promise.

4) Neverwinter – victim of F2P. Even if you can play freely without payment, all game won’t let you forget about microtransaction! And after month of playing I was sick from firework of advertising to by something in every step of play, in each place of interface.

So subscription plane TESO is right decision.  

 

So if you read all of this, you understand that I think TESO a rly great game.  And it has a really good  advantage over other big MMO. And want to believe in it great future.

BUT!

I regretfully must admit that I have strong suspicion not to pay for third month of game for now.

 

Why?

Because it still not more than open beta!!! And I don’t want to test it with absolutely shitty customer support, and ignoring obvious question. One gets the impression that ZOS takes their customers for an idiot!!!

Game was lunch to early (2-5 month early). And its biggest problem it ZOS, which seems ignore not only good attitude to customers but and experience of other MMO developer.

 

I will wait some time to play in real release…

But I don’t think game boring!!!! I think it most fascinating MMO I ever play!!!

 

PS. I did not start to discuss people who bored from questing and prefer to greeeeeend. They are mystery for me…  

PPS. And why people do not participate in conversation? I introvert so it rly question not for me))   

Edited by Ater

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I edited second poll, adding option for those who don't think game is boring, making it possible to vote for you as well :D

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Serana, you obviously need AD character! I know you can lvl-up it quite easily. :)

 

For PVP, RP & social meetings outside Cyrodiil  I can use daughter's AD caracter to play with you. She levelled it to 15 or 16, it should be enough.

For PVE...I'm so sorry, I really like you guys, I would have liked to play with you but it will not happen, unless Zenimax adds the option to change the faction against a gold (or even real money) price.

Maybe I could level from scratch to VR10 another character in AD in 1 or 2 months but it's pointless.

I am not alone. I came to ESO to play together with Vulturul and numaru7. They are already quite bored (VR 4 currently) about questing but keep playing with the hope to play together dungeons & Craglorn after finishing quests. I cannot leave them alone and just move to AD.

It would be unfair. And I cannot ask them to start levelling yet another character since they are already bored with levelling current one.

We have to accept the mistake (of choosing EP instead of AD) and live with it.

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Let's organize some PvP events :)

Tyros idea is great, find one evening a week where we go bash people together as a guild. (Just not wednesday!)

Even if we don't have a PvP officer right now, let's just agree on an evening and schedule and any officer can invite.

We can ask Tyro to lead, he has good tactics :)

 

Yeah, regularly scheduled is generally better than sporadic in my experience, because then people have something more concrete to plan around, which ups the chances of participation.

 

And sure, I suppose I could lead, but my problem is that my crap computer makes me DC in Cyrodiil, and at the worst possible times. :P Not only does that make me lose group lead when it happens, but it would leave the group without any clear directions for a minute or two as I start the game up again and sit through loading screens. A lot can happen in 2 minutes in PVP; you can take a resource node and already be at the next one fighting, and it's important to keep up the pace so the enemy can't get organized and wipe you. So perhaps it's better to put me in a support/advisory role, and leave group lead with someone who has a slightly more reliable computer. :wink2:

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I am not alone. I came to ESO to play together with Vulturul and numaru7. They are already quite bored (VR 4 currently) about questing but keep playing with the hope to play together dungeons & Craglorn after finishing quests. I cannot leave them alone and just move to AD.

It would be unfair. And I cannot ask them to start levelling yet another character since they are already bored with levelling current one.

 

You are not leaving them alone or quiting. You have much higher level then they do and you don't need to spend so much time with your main character. Nothing wrong if you create new character. You can try another class, catch up Nuin and do some dungeons gather flowers together.  :D

BTW, I have small templar too.

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Lol Flavia :) Gather flowers together, huh?

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He is hinting to the fact I get sidetracked by flowers maybe? :P

I completely blame alchemy and flowers my low lvl!

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some very interesting discussion about (mandatory) veteran content, grinding by questing, (some) people bored and quitting game and so on: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/101675/dear-zos-veteran-levels-are-killing-eso-please-wake-up-to-this

 

And the reply: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/102660/does-anyone-here-enjoy-leveling

 

BTW, can anyone explain to me in few words how is levelling in other MMOs, please?

I'm not trolling just try to understand what is the problem here, at least from some players' point of view.

 

Remember, I only played GW2 for 5 hours and Tera for 1 hour.

The quests were like "go South and kill 3 bears and come back".

Boring but the advantage would be than it worked in party so you were not alone, if a colleague killed a bear, it was counting for me also, which is usually not the case in ESO where most content should be soloed.

Should there be more than one way of levelling? For example, dungeons only give XP when done first time, then nothing (except loot) and no incentive to do them again except maybe for selling purple weapons. Is this the problem? That 95% XP is from quests?

My son for example likes group dungeons and would like to be more of them instead of questing.

Edited by Serana

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In other MMOs, leveling isn't constant-speed. It starts at rapid speed for first 10-15 levels and exponentially slows down towards level 50. To remedy the slow speed, you can find spots where high HP mobs reside in packs and go in there and massacre them. That will give you good leveling XP - generally last 2-3 levels can be easily boosted like that.

 

Once you reach level 50, 60 (whatever the top level is), you start doing expert/hard-mode dungeons (similar to vet dungeons in ESO) to get initial starter level gear for post-50 content, and the currency that will enable you to purchase tier-1 gear for tier-1 raids. Once you have your tier-1 gear, either via grinding for currency in dungeons or by crafting, you join your guild's raid core and start raiding. Additionally, you will need certain notorieties with clans/factions in the game to be able to purchase gear from them: those you gain by doing daily quests in related zones.

 

After clearing tier-1 dungeons and farming them (another type of grinding, tho much fun version of it, and socially rich), you move onto tier-2, -3 and so on. MMO in question keeps adding new raids/dungeons/content for new tiers - making it possible for you to "grow up" in the game. In addition to PvE, PvP has similar yet different line of progression, where you gather the currency, notoriety etc for PvP gear only and progress in that direction. In short, if you want both PvE and PvP gear progression, you need to do 2x job.

 

This generally how it is in Rift, GW2, WOW, SWTOR etc: in Rift, there are like 40 different factions/schools/clans of notoriety, and as much different currencies. Its a long way to the top and its impossible to reach there without organized guild.

 

Current problem with MMOs is:

  • WOW is old, dead and not appealing. Forget it, its 12-13 year old game with nothing tech-wise
  • Rift is gone F2P and with that, it lost its soul: many things you normally gathered via quests/raids, are being sold in Store for real money. That's not fun at all. I left Rift when moved Lodge to ESO.
  • SWTOR doesn't really have viable endgame. It's worse version of ESO. We have guilds there, in both factions (Imperium and Respublica, they are named)
  • GW2 so far is the best, with its own problems (being Buy-2-Play, with real-money Store etc). But it will be where I go, if ESO fails. We already have Lodge there, since day-1 of the game.
  • TSW (The Secret World): Its relatively new MMO, in a paranormal modern styled world. It features very good puzzles: generally you need to use your brain "muscles" to play that game. You know today's youth: they are not fond of doing so :) I will checking it out in coming days, it should be F2P. Its viable new home for me to go, but needs to be seen how good it is first.

That's it I guess.

Edited by Gelmir

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I have read official forums quite a lot lately, since I don't have much to do in ESO. Most people quitting ESO say they'll go in either ArchAge or Wildstar (never heard of them so don't ask me about).

Regarding GW2...it's very old, I think (at least for me) it would be quite strange to start as level 1 in a game played by others since 2 years ago. The differences (in knowledge about game) would be too much. My friend playing GW2 since 1,5 years already has 6 characters, all maximum level and just does pvp.

 

I'll keep for sure my sub in ESO waiting for future expansions but I don't mind playing other game simultaneously since in ESO there is no much I can do.

One of ESO's problems is that for someone semi-hardcore (playing  arround 4 hours/day), the content finishes at some point (quite quickly, basically less than 2 months) and I dont think future expansions (like Craglorn) will come too often, monthly let's say. So there will be a point where you have nothing more to do. Some people already are there. I saw a lot of VR12 this weekend.

They probably just exploited / farmed world  bosses (fixed this morning) instead of doing trials and adventures but that's another discussion.

 

Remember our old discussion before ESO launching?

Serana: what do you do after finishing ESO content?

Gelmir: Serana, a MMO just begins when you think it ends.

 

Well, it looks like, at least in ESO's case, it ended for quite a lot of people and the expansions will be quite rare. So probably a lot of hardcores will quit and only casuals which do take more time to level will stay in ESO.

 

As far as I understand, in other MMOs, this situation is solved by:

1) very hard end-game content (pve/pvp) so you can never say "I finished everything" and "I have best gear possible"

2) guilds which in ESO are not important at all, you can play without guild and have no issue at all (except maybe for socialization).

Edited by Serana

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ArchAge and Wildstar it so different from TESO that it can’t be direct concurrent.

ArchAge - it is Korean greeend game. With great idea, but with shitty realization. The biggest advantage of this game is build a house and plant a vegetable garden... And regularly take care of him…

Wildstar - even not release yet...

 

I think (at least for me) it would be quite strange to start as level 1 in a game played by others since 2 years ago. The differences (in knowledge about game) would be too much.

 

Only if you want to reach first place in all aspect of game.

But even you play from start - 4 hour a day it not enough for competitive in rating.

So what's the difference when begin to play?

Edited by Ater

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You could be right about your last paragrapf, it's probably just a psychological barrier for me.

 

Any game is dirrect concurrent to ESO at this point. I said Archage and Wildstar because I saw people on official forum mentioning them very often (especially Wildstar).

 

I'm a die-hard fan of ES (as to quote Gelmir) and, as we say in romanian, I'll probably be the last to turn off the lights (after everybody leaves).

But even I have to admit there are too many problems with this game.

I said I read the official forum quite a lot lately.

There are a lot of guys (really a lot) who cannot play since days because of the memory leak problem, there are a lot who cannot log in, there are a lot who were mistakenly banned (because they were afk and didn't react to a bot check).

Others are bored or unhappy with playing veteran content (levels VR 1-10) and would have preferred adventures/trials at level 50 and playing the other 2 factions on alts or optional.

Others have finished everything, are at VR12 already and nothing to do anymore.

Others complain about unbalanced classes (especially templars and night-blades).

Other complain about exagerately powerful mobs in veteran area (the bug with 2*HP and 2*damage).

Other complain that last patch (1.1.2) was not tested at all.

And bots. And gold spammers.

Quite a lot already unsubscribed. Many guild leaders complain about empty or inactive guilds.

I am aware that in any game there are a lot of people complaining about anything (hey, I played Dota 2 before, probably worst community) but most of above are real complains.

Fortunately I don't have most problems other people do but this doesn't mean everything is ok.

Where is the enthusiasm which was in the game weeks ago or in beta? Everybody enjoyed the game, ignored bugs and had fun.

Now everything is...I'll not say dead but the atmosfere is one of an old boring game, not one just published.

I'm an ES fan and I would like them to succeed but they are not going in the right direction.

The last patch (1.1.2 - Craglorn) was a disaster.

Edited by Serana

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In my opinion ArchAge and Wildstar can’t be direct concurrent because they have only one similarity – it all MMORGP. But all other thing is completely different. For example, ArchAge f2p where in fact that for normal play you must pay more than TESO subscription. And Wildstar sci-fi and have cartoonish graphics with poisonous color.

And I will never play in this game.

But maybe it is just me so picky... And most people will eat what they are given.

 

Craglorn disaster?

Disaster is Craglorn endgame, or fail during putching? )

Edited by Ater

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Serana, you ask a lot of questions, but it seems to me that you do not understand what YOU really want. 

If I like dungeons, I can do it 10 times in a row. Nobody forces me to do quests or pvp or whatever. I can easily find things that I like and do them. Enjoy the game. Achieve max lvl or do all the quests - these aren't your main goals. 

 

There are no perfect games. It's impossible to please everybody. You can always find a lot of issues with any game, especially if you seeking for them.

I see that game improves every week. I am fully satisfied. 

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I agree with Serana in many terms.

 

But I came here to make an important remark about ArchAge: There was an awesome game once, called Lineage 2, very much loved at least by eastern players, Russians mainly (that's the player ecosystem I know, so no idea what EU thought about that game).. ArchAge is coming-soon MMORPG and already most of Lineage 2 fans consider it as the continuation of Lineage legacy. Its arrival is so greatly anticipated that even Trion - Rift's developer company - has taken over ArchAge's distribution and supports its development. I know one thing for sure: Trion is AWESOME MMO builder. Rift was a blast to enjoy, really. If ArchAge attracted Trion's attention, the game has something to offer.

 

I strongly recommend checking vids featuring what ArchAge's got to offer. I watched some myself: game is very strong. One downside tho: it will be an F2P game with real money Store, but well... all games nowadays are like that anyway.

 

If ArchAge gets released in let's say 6 months or so, it might as well become my choice. Will see more of it in alphas and betas anyway - signed up for those. But my first impression is, the game is far from being another hentai or manga crap which I personally hate.

 

Wildstar is Scifi genre - not really an epic fantasy game. So I won't compare it to any MMO out there. It'd be unrealistic comparison.

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